ROBERT SCHNECK: This is cute in a horrible, horrible way

I don't pretend to understand the market for poseable collector-quality vinyl orangutan toddler dolls, but according to the advertisement for Mollie' the Orangutan Toddler Doll:

'She's always dressed for fun! Make a play date with Mollie, an adorable orangutan doll created by master sculptor Simon Laurens - his Ashton-Drake Galleries debut! You'll delight in her exceptional realism, like the wrinkles around Mollie's pretty blue eyes and mouth, and the tiny folds and creases on the bottom of her feet, just like real orangutans. She has hand-painted nails, and wispy hand-applied auburn hair that is adorned with a big bow.

Mollie child doll is an Ashton-Drake Galleries exclusive. Her head and limbs are realistically sculpted, then hand-cast in collector-quality vinyl, giving Mollie a soft, huggable and poseable body. Her adorable bright summer outfit is fashioned by hand. Strong demand is expected for this first-of-a-kind orangutan toddler doll, so order now!'

http://www.ashtondrake.com/products/301556001_baby-doll.html

The people at Ashton-Drake Galleries presumably know their business and that last part about strong demand is not wishful thinking. As for me, I don't want a play date with Mollie or to be in a room containing Mollie, and that's with the sun up. Can you imagine lying in bed watching the moonlight play across her wispy auburn hair and strangler's hands?

FINAL WORD ON ORANG UTANS

Somebody called Bilbo has just written: "Seems to me the CFZ just dont like THT because he/she pulls them up on all their mistakes. Maybe the CFZ should actually listen? It also seems fairly obvious to me - orang utan like hairs showing some human like dna would be orang utan hairs contaminated by humans. Plus the fact all hairs destroyed and no pics of the hairs through the microscope does not fair well for the cfz in my eyes. Seems to me we are back to the leopard hairs all over again, surely the same cfz members are not involved in both?? Bilbo"

For the last time:

1. Lars Thomas has got copies of the photographs because he carried out the analysis.
2. I have had confirmation from Adam Davies that he still has two hairs in ethanol.
3. Richard Freeman has just received the letter from the Orang Utan Foundation, confirming his oft-stated claim that the only records of orang utans in Kerinci Seblat are from the 19th Century:

From: Kristina Maurice-Jones Subject: FW: Orangutan Foundation: orang-utans in Kerinci National ParkTo: richard@cfz.org.ukDate: Tuesday, 30 November, 2010, 12:10
Hi Richard,

1. There are reports of orangutans being seen in the Rimbo Panti nature reserve......some distance to the North of the Kerinci Seblat National Park. in the late 1960's (reports of Yves Lamonnier)
2. There are written references to "a live orangutan" in Padang and "a dead one in jambi" by Schlegel and Muller 1839-1844. I do not know for sure if either of these were in the forest though, or in someone's house or wherever.
All these records and reports are discussed and summarized in Rijksen and Meiyaard, our vanishing relative...1999. If they are looking for orang pendek they should certainly have a copy of this book in their collection.

All the best,

Kristina

Therefore there is no substance to any of the claims against the CFZ, and as I said the other day, the discussion of the matter is over. I will let you know if any more information about the historical range of orang utans comes to light.

THE DIALOGUE ON THE SUMATRA HAIR SAMPLES CONTINUES...

`The Highland Tiger` wrote back:

'Jon, I thank you for posting my comments. I understand that you wish to accept the findings of your experts. However, do you not think it prudent to contact orangutan specialists for their opinion of the hair samples. For them to confirm the identity of the hair samples would in my opinion have more validity in the wider zoological world. You need confirmation of the hair samples. not from just a generalist such as Lars, but from someone who is an expert in orangutan physiology. You need to eliminate any possibility it is of a known orangutan sub species, before you can claim it is of a new species.

And for the record, Richard Freeman is incorrect, in saying that orangutans have been missing from Western Sumatra since the 1880's. The IUCN report indicates that there were reports up to as recently as the 1960's. I really feel you need to get as many professional opinions on the hairs as you can.'

We wrote to Lars Thomas, who replied:

'Unfortunately it will not be possible to send anything to anybody - in order to get enough DNA out of the hairs, all the rest of them had to be sacrificed. The actual extraction process destroys the hairs. All that remains are my notes and drawings and the various pictures taken from the screen of the big microscope during the Weird Weekend. But intriguingly enough, a couple of days ago I got a call from a Danish guy, who used to work as a tourist guide in Indonesia. He had stumbled onto the CFZ blog and read about the orang pendek. He claims to have some long orange/reddish brown hairs in his position he found in Sumatra about 10 years ago, at a place where some local had seen an orang pendek. He never though much about it at the time, and just kept the hairs as a fun souvenir of his time in Indonesia.'

As far as the dates when orang utans were last seen in Kerinci National Park, Richard had been told that they had not been there since the 19th century. However, in the light of what THT has written, we have written to Debbie Martyr and the management of the park for clarification.

`THE HIGHLAND TIGER` COMMENTS ON THE LATEST DISCUSSIONS RE. THE HAIR SAMPLES FROM SUMATRA

On Thursday I received a message from the person calling themselves `The Highland Tiger`. He wrote hoping that we took his comments on this occasion "as a genuine observation". In that spirit, therefore, I reproduce what he had to say:

"From what I can gather from the conclusions made by both Lars and Richard Freeman, it appears that the DNA results of being close to human are being ignored, largely in favour of the hair analysis. I find this very worrying as it appears on the surface to be a case of trying to fit the evidence to the theory.

Hair analysis is very subjective process and is literally in the eye of the beholder. Different experts may come to different conclusions in investigating hair samples. DNA results are less subjective.

The reason the DNA samples claim to be almost human is more than likely through contamination. Yes I know the researchers claim they did not touch the hairs, but to be honest it is hard enough to prevent contamination in a laboratory, let alone obtaining clean samples in the field, is hard and I don't blame the field team for this.

I understand Karl Shuker has given an example of the king cheetah to explain a possibilty of both DNA and hair analysis being correct. However, this is only one case and we can in no way extrapolate this example in order to fit the evidence to the theory again, as Richard seems to have done.

I am actually in agreement with Dr Dan Holdsworth in that I feel the DNA results have probably been compromised by contamination.

The hairs are interesting in that I have no problem in accepting them as orangutan hairs, (and as such in finding a new population of orangs you have had a success)

Now this find is more exciting to the wider zoological world. Are you intending to contact orangutan researchers, and allow them to look at the hairs themselves. To find and confirm a new orangutan population is very important on a wordwide conservation scale, and needs to be released to mainstream zoological research and not kept in the restricted confines of cryptozoological research".

The most important thing about these DNA results are that whatever the hairs are, they are NOT from an orang utan. I would like to stress this. If there had been evidence suggesting that there was at least one orang utan living in that stretch of jungle, we would of course have made the hairs available to the relevant authorities. If there is any chance that there is a hitherto unsuspected population of these increasingly beleagured great apes then it is our sacred duty to do what we can to save them, and the discovery of a new population would be immensely important.

But the hairs, whatever they are from, are NOT from an orang utan.

However, we are not claiming that they are from an orang pendek either. Neither Richard nor Lars is ignoring the startlingly human-like DNA, and yes, the possibility of contamination is something that is always a possibility.

But as Lars writes, the results are inconclusive, although as a zoologist with many years experience, the hairs, together with all the anecdotal evidence that has been collected, Dave Archer and Sahar Didmus's eyewitness testimonies, and the various hair samples and footprints secured over the years have convinced him that there is an unknown species of higher primate living in Sumatra.

But no. Both Richard and I agree with Lars and HT that the DNA evidence - though interesting - is far from being conclusive, which is why we intend to go back to Sumatra with more equipment and more manpower to continue the hunt.

ORANG PENDEK

You will be hearing properly from us in the next day or two. However, to put it in a nutshell: the 2009 expedition from Sumatra did bring back hairs, and Lars Thomas and his team in Copenhagen have identified them as being substantially reminiscent of an orangutan. The nearest populations of orangutans live several hundred miles away. At the very least this would suggest that we have discovered a new population of one of the world's rarest animals. At the very best...use your imagination.

DALE DRINNON: The Skunk Ape

It seems that the best evidence is that there exists a sort of native orangutan in the south-eastern United States. Loren Coleman has been by far the most active investigator in this matter and therefore, I pass on his information without comment. I for one have never questioned the value of his original research in this matter.

The tracks are, however, different than the other orangutan-like creatures reported further to the south in the American tropics: it walks flat-footed. It leaves tracks generally like those of a chimpanzee. It is supposed to walk upright more often than the usual apes, although it still goes down on all-fours sometimes. It also seems to do an unusual amount of swimming and wading for an ape.

There have also been some purported and highly disputed finds of fossil teeth and skulls supposed to be related to it. It does seem that it inhabits a climate zone parallel to the Japanese macaques ('snow monkeys') and it eats primarily acorns and nuts in season - possibly stock-piling them for lean times - and it is especially fond of fruit when it can get any, but it also eats birds and eggs (and is blamed for raiding henhouses). These latter comments are my observations from the reports and not necessarily those of Coleman, although I would dare say he would agree with those remarks.

Here is the Wikipedia entry on the Skunk Apes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skunk_Ape

The Skunk Ape is a cryptid said to inhabit the Southern United States, from places such as North Carolina and Arkansas, although reports from Florida are most common. It is named for its appearance and for the unpleasant odor that is said to accompany it. Some reports say the skunk ape is so stinky because it rolls itself in animal carcasses to get people to leave it alone. According to the United States National Park Service, the skunk ape exists only as a local myth. Reports of the Skunk ape were particularly common in the 1960s and 1970s. In the fall of 1974, numerous sightings were reported in suburban neighborhoods of Dade County, Florida, of a large, foul-smelling, hairy, ape-like creature, which ran upright on two legs.

Myakka photographs

In 2000, two photographs of an alleged ape, said to be the Skunk Ape, were taken anonymously and mailed to the Sarasota Sheriff's Department in Florida. They were accompanied by a letter from a woman claiming to have photographed it on the edge of her backyard. The photographer claimed that on three different nights the ape had entered her yard to take apples from a bushel basket on her porch. She was convinced it was an escaped orangutan. The police were dispatched to the house numerous times but when they arrived the Skunk Ape, also known as the stink ape was gone. The pictures have become known to Bigfoot enthusiasts as the "skunk ape photos".

Loren Coleman is the primary researcher on the Myakka photographs, having helped track down the two photographs to an "Eckerd photo lab at the intersection of Fruitville and Tuttle Roads" in Sarasota County, Florida.

The Myakka photos can be seen at http://www.lorencoleman.com/myakka.html The main criticism of the photos is that the body does appear to be rather shapless with no anatomical hallmarks visable, but that is also true in the case of known big male orangutans covered in long shaggy hair.

LETTER FROM GREENPEACE

Hi there,

Guess what? Nestlé has only gone and agreed to our campaign demands! And it's your emails, phone calls, video views, donations and Facebook messages which have made this massive victory possible. We really couldn't have done it without you.

Greenpeace campaigners have met several times with Nestlé executives to discuss the problems in sourcing their palm oil and paper products and things were certainly moving forward. But we didn't expect them to come up with such a comprehensive 'zero deforestation' policy so quickly.

Just this morning, Nestlé announced a plan which will identify and remove any companies in their supply chain with links to deforestation, including the infamous Sinar Mas. This plan still needs to be followed up with action, and the Forest Trust - an independent organisation we've worked with before - will be closely monitoring Nestlé's progress.

But as many of you have pointed out, Nestlé is not the only company involved in the palm oil industry and while this is a fantastic result, there's still a lot more to do before the destruction of Indonesia's rainforests is brought to a halt. So let's get started right away.

HSBC may not be a company that uses palm oil directly but by investing in Sinar Mas it's funding deforestation. The bank claims to be concerned about our planet, but its investment decisions paint an altogether different picture. HSBC bosses need to know the devastating effect their investments are having, and they can't bank on a return from deforestation and driving orang-utans to extinction.

Email Michael Geoghegan, HSBC's CEO, now – you made Nestlé take action, let's make HSBC listen as well.
Thanks for again for your support,
Jamie Woolley17 May 2010

DALE DRINNON: Orangs and Yetis at All Sizes

L: Yeti Territory (Mt Everest region double-circled)

R: Yeti and Orangutan with male head peak

The search for the orang pendek has been the focus of much interest at the CFZ. The orang pendek is frequently singled out as the cryptid most likely to be discovered next and added to the known species category. The press releases very frequently simplify the situation for the layman to more easily get the thrust of the argument. There is more than one kind of orang pendek and the name does not specifically refer to any one thing in particular.


L: "Heuvelmans Yeti Compared to Orangutan Proportions" R: BH Orang Pendek As Dwarfed Solo Man

The names orang pendek and orang utan are used in what Sanderson calls Kitchen-Malay, a sort of creole trade language, in which the word 'orang' means 'person' (i.e, a human being). 'Orang pendek' means 'short or stocky person' and 'orang utan' means 'person who lives in the forest.' Both names can and are in common usage to mean regular human beings with just such determining characteristics. The native terms 'sedapa' for orang pendek and 'mias' for orang utans are preferable, and this is the situation as stated by Ivan T. Sanderson in 1961 in his book Abominable Snowmen: Legend Come to Life.

L: "O.pendek track compared to other feet" R: "Hypothetical Orangutans matched against Human height extremes"


Now because we have a situation where a creature is named by a non-specific name, we have a situation where more than one kind of creature is being reported under that name. The situation is exactly the same as in the case of the South American Didi: one of the types is a hominid with long head-hair and human-style feet with non-opposed toes. The other is a kind of an ape with non-differentiated head-hair and an opposable toe on its foot. In both the Old World and the New.


Eyewitness drawings of orang pendek

This has caused some disconcerting situations as the orang pendek being related to the Flores 'Hobbits' by many researchers, while at the same time the same researchers incongruously show casts of ape tracks with opposed big toes as evidence for the theory. The earliest known tracks attributed to the orang pendek are human tracks and they are comparable to small neanderthal tracks. That is why I made my paste-up showing how the orang pendek could be a dwarfed form of Solo Man (The paste-up was done before the discovery of the Flores 'Hobbits' and the two pendek figures would be at approximate female and male average heights.)

Now the ape-like pendek is clearly like an orangutan in the shape of its skull and facial profile (I am ignoring the occasional reports of an outsized Siamang also confusing the issue) And as a matter of fact, on the islands of both Sumatra and Borneo, known orangutan habitats, there are not only reports of 'little ones'; there are also reports of giants. The giants in Sumatra are known as orang gadang (great big people) and there is a very famous case of one giant orangutan being killed and sent to a museum mentioned in all the old natural history books. That one was over seven feet tall when the dead body (NOT the stretched skin) was measured. Chad Arment in Cryptozoology: Science and Speculation (2004) discusses this case.

Going by human records, it might well be possible for orangutans to range from under three feet tall to over eight feet tall as adults (male heights). It is even conceivable that the end populations might form inbreeding populations of unusually large or unusually small average sizes through the process of genetic drift.

Now it just so happens that a comparable situation is reported in the Yetis of the Himalayan region (Ivan Sanderson does at one point specify 'The Meh-Teh [classic yeti] is NOT a Himalayan inhabitant' but there is clearer evidence for them in the Everest region and around Assam) where the basic type of creature is very like an orangutan and in this area there are not only reports of the big yetis over seven feet tall, there are reports of the dwarf kind or Teh-lma. This last kind is very like the ape-like version of the orang pendek, although the tracks attributed to it are probably mistakes (on the occasion reported by Gerald Russell, the tracks were in association with a sighting, and the reported creature was much too large to have made the tracks)

L: Orang utan skull R: Orang pendek track

So I think there is a good chance that both the large and small orangs (sedapas, or orang gugus) and the large and small 'yetis' are genetically-isolated offshoots of the known orangutans, and the parallel situation among the yetis developed by a parallel process. The yetis would be related to the orangutans, but the severe differences in foot structure and habitat make it likely they are not the same species. They may well represent the more generalizsed ancestors of the more specialised known orangutans (pongo). In his checklist Heuvelmans concludes the listing of the yeti by saying 'it is equally possible that the so-called Snowman is merely a particular form of orang-utan, more terrestrial than the tree-dwelling kind', and this entry immediately follows another entry for mainland-Asiatic orangutans (Olo-banda and Bir sindic in Assam, in English translation 'Big Monkey', equivalent to Mahalangur used around Mount Everest)

(P.S, I am NOT advocating the existence of the orang pendek in the form of two or more cryptids, i.e, unknown species. To my classification the more human type is simply a Homo sapiens sub-type while the ape-like form is an orangutan variant, and I would defer to any good genetic evidence that establishes it as a new species as opposed to an unusual population of the same species.)

CRYPTO ORANGS

Over on his never less than excellent Tetrapod Zoology blog, Dr Darren Naish (see, we have finally grown out of the bad habit of giving him stupid nicknames) has been reading a classic book on orang utans. He writes:

'Anyway, one particular section of the book really stands out for me: the bit where MacKinnon catches sight of a gigantic, terrestrially walking male orangutan...'

and then examines a whole slew of anomalous orang utan sightings that may shed light on some of the most enduring cryptozoological mysteries in southern Asia. Read on...

http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2009/12/encounters_gigantic_orangutans.php#more

TIM MATTHEWS: Still everything to play for

Tim Matthews is one of my best friends, and also - coincidentally - one of the most controversial figures in contemporary forteana. He has been involved with the CFZ for nearly a decade now, raising eyebrows wherever he goes.

It is still all to play for, so come to us all ye that are heavy laden and work with the CFZ. I remember back in the good old bad old days of X Files hysteria that many of us, me inlcuded, took ourselves far too seriously and forgot that This Thing Of Ours could and should be fun. I mean, what is the point if it isn't? Making a difference has to be enlightening as well entertaining. What amuses me, in a kind of black way, is the story I read today on the BBC website about yet another momentous discovery - this time a new population of a rare species of Orangutan in wildest Borneo.

Cryptozoologists were not leading the way, or the fray, and were following the primates rear whilst Regular Scientists (they who scoff at our feeble efforts), acting on tip offs from locals, discovered a tightly packed arrangement of nests where up to 2,000 of these creatures are said to live. A 17-hour journey to the location included ten hours by car, five hours in a boat and a couple more hours hiking. Now you can't travel that distance on the internet can you?

On the same day that it is claimed that "most Britons" believe in "heaven" it seems that we more chance of convincing people to go to church than becoming active in the scientific disciplines. It also seems that more and more of our time should be spent getting involved with regular scientific and similar practical activities because the Crypto crew are simply not engaging with the right people to make discoveries. The question that needs to be asked is whether this is a cottage industry for the promotion of dodgy folklore or a serious effort intended to push back the boundaries of human knowledge. We'd be better joining in with other people's expeditions, wouldn't we?

Mind you, this is one in the eye for all those 'orrible skeptical specimens that haunt the fringes of our subject and who are oft heard to proclaim that "there is nothing more to discover" or that "it's all myths and folklore". Tell that to Eric Meijaard of Nature Conservancy Indonesia whose team not only found the new rare species but is also working as hard as it can to protect the area in question from destructive human activity including massive deforestation and palm oil production from local sources.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7995970.stm